The Fresh Loaf

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bluezebra's picture
bluezebra

Question about Developing Sourdough Dough

I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question. But when I've been building a dough with a poolish and with yeast here are my steps:

1. Build the poolish.

2. Let the poolish sit overnight of for hours - UNDISTURBED

3. Add poolish to rest of flour and water etc

4. Stretch and fold dough multiple times to get the gluten developed

5. Do a bulk fermentation to x 2 in dough volume

6. Cut and shape

7. Final Rise

8. Bake

It occurs to me I don't have a step-by-step process worked out in my mind of how sourdough dough development works. Could you tell me if I'm messing up my steps please?

1. Build the starter up to active state. (Takes as many days and feedings as necessary)

2. Add starter to rest of flour and water. Mix it up and let it autolyse for an hour or so.

3. Add salt and other ingredients into the dough mixture.

4. Stretch and fold dough multiple times to get the gluten developed

5. Do a bulk fermentation to x 2 in dough volume

6. Cut and shape

7. Final Rise

8. Bake

 

Are these the right steps or did I miss the part where the newly mixed dough with starter needs to ferment undisturbed? Can anyone give me a step by step guide for a basic sourdough bread or is each recipe different in it's methodology?

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

German Rye Bread

Hi, I am starting up this thread because I don't want to hijack or in anyway take Cookie's thread off on a tangent that she may not wish.

The bread is am talking about is found at this site and is the Klosterbrot. sphealey has suggested reading RLB's the bread bible and Jeff Hammelman's bread. I have read both and am curious as to whether or not the ....detmold....method is necessary for baking this type of bread. The description of detmold is quite intimidating for me since I am a new comer to bread and I am wonder just how necessary it is for this bread. Can someone say?

Klosterbrot
Click label for nutritional info

A medium-textured, firm European sourdough. This bread is a favorite. No seeds & lots of old world flavor.
1lb (s) | 2lb (s)(u) | 4lb (s)(u) | 7lb (u)
454g | 907g | 1.8kg | 3.18kg
JMonkey's picture
JMonkey

Spelt help

I grind my own flour and regularly make whole wheat breads at about 85-90% hydration to get an open crumb - not as open as with white flour, of course, but holey enough for me.

Anyway, I bought 6 pounds of spelt berries a couple of weeks ago and started up a spelt sourdough starter. I made a round loaf of 50-50 whole wheat / whole spelt at 85% hydration. Lovely crumb, lovely flavor. Big ole pancake of a loaf. It spread out something awful in the oven.

I've previously made a sourdough sandwich loaf with 50-50 whole wheat - whole spelt at 80% hydration, and it turned out great. A bit less of a rise than 100% wheat, but still acceptable, and the flavor was really nice. Tangy and nutty. But the loaf also had butter, milk and some honey in it, which could have made a difference, I suppose. The round was just flour, water, salt and starter.

I developed both the round and the sandwich loaf using the stretch and fold method described by Mike Avery (i.e., mix until all is hydrated, rest for an hour, then fold ever 45 minutes or so). I folded three times.

I see several possibilities for why the loaf spread:

1) I've read that spelt doesn't absorb as much water as wheat. Perhaps I added too much water?
2) I've also read that spelt's gluten is more fragile than wheat. But, as I said, the pan loaf rose just fine.
3) Perhaps I didn't develop the dough well enough? (again, though, the pan loaf was fine)
4) Maybe my shaping needs help. I was trying to be as gentle as possible, so maybe I was a bit too gentle.

Anyway, if anyone has any experience working with whole spelt and has tips and pointers, I'd be most appreciative.

browndog's picture
browndog

What About You?

I want to spring-clean and have some fun--will you guys join me? Sometimes in intros people will share what started them down our common floury path, but I'd love to hear it from everyone--how did you first get in to bread baking? My own story is unremarkable, it was the 70's, I was a young hippie-wanna-be and had just gone vegetarian, which meant raiding my very lean discretionary fund piggy-bank for a copy of --wait for it--Diet For A Small Planet. Back then it was common 'knowledge' that good bread was plant or dairy protein and fiber glued together with a little spit...amazingly my interest transcended the experience, and 30 years out I'm learning new and reassessing or even deleting much of my old bread 'dogma'...thanks to you all.

Tam1024's picture
Tam1024

Starter won't double itself

I am trying to nurse my sick starter back to health and not getting the results I want.  About 10 days ago I started a vigorous attempt to revive my barely living starter.  I have been using 1/4 c. of starter, 3/4 c. flour and 1/2 c. water. I let it sit out for 12 hours and then refridgerate it for the next 12 hours. I then repeat the process day after day.   The starter has progressed some.  12 hours after feeding it has not doubled but has risen maybe half it's size.  It usually has very vigorous bubbles on the surface and 1/4 of the way down but not throughout.  What can I try to get it to double.  Any sugguestions?

smartdog's picture
smartdog

Square Challah Loaf

This is my fourth challah. I decided to stray from the traditional braid "out of a pan" to braiding first, then letting it rise in the pullman pan today. I am pleased so far. It's hot out of the oven, so I will post the cut picture later this evening. ;)

 Challah loaf

Luv4Country Soaps
 http://www.luv4country.com/catalog

zainaba22's picture
zainaba22

Zainab's flat Bread

Makes 16 flat Bread

1 Kilos flour,unbleached,whole wheat,or a mixture of the two

1 teaspoon salt

1 teaspoon sugar

1 Tablespoon yeast

1 Tablespoon Baking powder

2 cups water

5 Tablespoons oil

1)place all ingredients in the bowl of mixer ,beat 10 minutes to make a soft dough.

2)cover,let rise in warm place until doubled in size ,about 1 hour.

3)Divide dough into 16 pieces. Roll each to a 20 cm round.

4) preheat the oven to 550 degrees. i do not  have a baking stone,so i use the grill pan

5) Bake for 1 minute per side.

6)Open the oven and place the flat Bread on the hot baking surface. They should be  puffy after 1 minute.

 

Zainab's  flat Bread+Arabic flat Bread

zainab

http://arabicbites.blogspot.com/

zainaba22's picture
zainaba22

Arabic flat Bread

Makes 12 flat Bread

500 g flour,unbleached,whole wheat,or a mixture of the two

4 Tablespoons powdered milk

4 Tablespoons sugar

4 Tablespoons oil

1 Tablespoon yeast

1 Tablespoon Baking powder

1 teaspoon salt

1 1\2 cups water

1)place all ingredients in the bowl of mixer ,beat 10 minutes to make a soft dough.

2)cover,let rise in warm place until doubled in size ,about 1 hour.

3)Divide dough into 12 pieces. Roll each to a 20 cm round.

4) preheat the oven to 550 degrees. i do not  have a baking stone,so i use the grill pan

5) Bake for 1 minute per side.

6)Open the oven and place the flat Bread on the hot baking surface. They should be  puffy after 1 minute.

* They taste okay the next day, With just  20-30 seconds in the microwave.

zainab

http://arabicbites.blogspot.com/

zainaba22's picture
zainaba22

No-Knead Bread with bulgur wheat

HokeyPokey's picture
HokeyPokey

Failing! - What am I doing wrong?

I’ve been trying NYT no-knead recipe following JMonkey sourdough version, and a breadtopia version from http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/ and its failing miserably.

 

I tried Jim’s recipe tonight - http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/jimpics/Instructions.html

– same result.

 

I am using Organic White flour from Shipton Mill, measuring 140-150g to a cup, and a 100% white starter (tried rye/wholemeal – with no improvements)

 

NY dough is VERY wet, and I am only using 1.5 cups of water.

I leave it for 18 hours (but see bubbles after 12) at a room temperature, shape and lease to rise for another 2-2.5 hours in a warm place. And it really sticks to a towel – I am using a lot of flour, but it seems to absorb it all.

I managed to get it into my hot hot Le Cruset pot and bake as per recipe.

It has absolutely no oven spring, but a nice crust and a very sour taste (which my husband likes).

 

Jim’s recipe – mixed it well, left for an hour – did the French fold – worked beautifully! 18 hours later, the dough is very wet again, had lots of troubles shaping it into a ball. Left for a final rise in a warm place – really flat, and not much volume, even though, its been sitting for an hour and a half at least. Took at least 5 min to transfer it to a baking stone – baked to 40 mins – flat and no over spring – another disaster!

 

Please help, what am I doing wrong?

 

 First mix

01 Mix

 After 18 hours

02 after 18 hours

 Folding

Folding 

 The result

 

  

 

 

 

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