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BvN's picture
BvN

Please help with stuck sponge

Hi! I don;t know if non-sour-dough starters are allowed her. I am making active ferment sponge from liquid yeast culture - the current culture is a couple of months old. Everywhere else on this forum, sponge is a pre-ferment. Since mine takes over a day to set, I don't think we are talking about the same thing. I bake about 3 times a week and go through about 40 to 50 lbs of bread flour a month. My sponge gets stuck over 50% of the time and needs to be re-inoculated (pitched). What comes out of the oven is consistant. It has the intended flavor, crust, crumb, and rise. I would just like some help identifying why my sponge keeps getting stuck. Note: it is just as likely to get stuck with active dry yeast as it is with emptins.

Bread Making Equipment.
All of my key bread making tools are of a compatible size and create similar limits as to how much bread can be made at a time.
Oven - ½ sized convection with a 14.5" x 16.5" baking stone. Useful vault height with stone and glider assembly is 8". Manufactured by Dacor.
Stand Mixer - Kitchen Aid 520-Pro. All metal gears, housing, and transmission. Sintered bronze journal bearings. Capacity 5 quarts, 450 watts, with a dough hook.
Peel - 15" x 18" with 12" handle.
Sponge pot - 4 quart, NSF, stainless, with a close fitted lid.
Proofing pot - 8 quart, NSF, stainless, with a close fitted lid.

Sponge construction - best practice.
The goal of this practice is to add "fullness" to the mouth of the bread without the use of sour-dough methods. To avoid the overt sweetness of sucrose (table sugar), I use dry malt extract (mostly maltose and some non-fermentable dexedrines) and a modest addition of sea salt to the dough. Flavor complexity is enhanced by the use of a baker's sponge (poolish) as a ferment. This sponge technique is, most definitely, not a pre-ferment.
Also, unlike typical sponge technique, this sponge provides all the hydration and leavening for the bread. Brewing sanitary methods must be used to prevent molds, wild yeast, and bacteria from gaining a foothold in the ferment. Additionally, this practice borrows significant components from 17th and 18th century baking technique. Consequently, volume, weight, and time measures are very loose. The focus is on temperature, feel, and zymurgy (the care and feeding of yeast). Note: this practice is a lot simpler than that required for the brewing of beer.
To pitch means to add liquid yeast culture to the mix while minimizing thermal and mechanical shock. Barm is yeast infused foam {FYI, the English word "barmy" - meaning a kind of crazy air head - derives from this} . Wort is a liquid growth medium for yeast and bacteria.

1.Sanitize everything and avoid contact with aluminum. Boil and cool the hydration to 80° F.

2.Instant wort - add malt extract powder at 1 part to ~20 of hydration. I use a gallon milk jug to shake the instant wort (aerate) for a few minutes - gets very foamy. Adds O2 which is required by the yeast for propagation - not fermentation, which follows after the oxygen is depleted.

3.Yeast (S. cerevisiae) - preferred source: emptins {see the Wikipedia, Baker's Yeast, History
 Ref. Simmons, Amelia - American Cookery, Hartford, 1798}, or active dry {activate per instructions, but use the instant wort}; Note: if not using emptins, use some ale samplings (draughts extracted from the primary and secondary fementers to taste the progress of the developing ale) in the hydration to fake the flavor.

4.Set aside a cup or so, of the instant wort in the refrigerator to rescue stuck sponge.

5.Transfer the remainder of the instant wort into the sponge pot, pitch, and rest, covered, for 2 to 12 hours to create a barmy liquid yeast culture.

6.Start the sponge - add enough bread flour to create a thin batter (1 part in 2 usually works).

7.Set the sponge - rest, covered, overnight (or longer) at 70° to 75° F. Note: the sponge can be stopped for a couple of days in the refrigerator.

8.Proof the sponge. A fully set sponge is uniformly bubbly, tripled in volume, very sticky, and smells of young ale. If the sponge has separated, it is stuck. This is a highly likely outcome, given the rather variable diastatic potency of the emptins. Don't worry, the yeast have done some very useful work. Use the set aside instant wort to activate more dry or instant yeast and pitch, otherwise just add the set aside. Mix in an appropriate amount of the flour to match the added liquid. Let the sponge rest for a couple of hours and then fold it into dry ingredients of the dough.

 

cake diva's picture
cake diva

Pizza dough tearing apart easily- need diagnosis

I was being both parsimonious and curious when I decided to make pizza dough using a 100% starter that had been sitting in the back of the fridge for 3 months without feeding.  To it, I added a small amount of active starter, and let this preferment mixture sit overnight at room temp.  The next day, I proceeded to add the salt, olive oil, and flour to the consistency that I thought was proper.  I then kneaded the dough using the dough setting on my breadmachine. That same day, I tried making pizza.  I knew there was problem as soon as I saw the dough tearing as I attempted to stretch it.  It looked like there wasn't enough gluten development, but it couldn't have been the kneading since I used manual and breadmachine kneading.  Might it be the yeast, or lack of it?  I'm grasping at straws here;  I always read the lack of gluten development comes from inadequate kneading.

Roo's picture
Roo

Dough Divider

I have the opportunity to purchase a dough divider for what appears to be a great price. It is a manual one similiar to the Duchess that Mark has used in several of his videos.

One of my main concerns is portion size and how is that determined.  Basically this thing came out of a Panchero's Mexican Resturaunt.  They are a fast food burrito place.  Is the size of the roll going to be determined on the amount of dough placed in the pan?  Or is it more along the lines of different models for different needs.  One model will only do tortilla's while another model does only rolls, while yet another does only buns.

I would really like to use it to make dinner rolls and perhaps buns if possible any thoughts???

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

San Joaquin Sourdough

I haven't been taking pics lately but have been baking as usual. Wanted to thank David and also document how wonderful this formula is. I have a starter , thanks to Gaarp, that doubles in one hour. I take it out of the fridge 1x a week and feed it q 12h for a total of 2 times and it is fantastic. I also have a rye starter and a bowl of "discard". The San Joaquin is great. Here are pics. Perfect sour for us as we are not wild about lots of sour. I have found that my starter is very happy in the fridge. At least it works for me.

I will pass along one tip that we discovered along the way. We make a lot of breads from Il Fornaio, a great Italian Bread Book. I have stopped making preferment, biga, poolish....I only use my discard...it works wonders. Believe it or not. The bread rises and has the most wonderful complex sweetness. My discard is a blend of both of my starters...rye and white ( alto and sax) and they are both 100% hydration. Try it. Take out the required amount of your discard and sub it for your biga/preferment/poolish...what a treat.

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discard as "biga"

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LindyD's picture
LindyD

Parmigiano Reggiano loaf (a/k/a Hamelman's Cheese Bread)

"Cheese Bread" is a rather drab description of this strongly flavored bread, so I decided to give it the name of the cheese I used.  

The overall formula (which includes a stiff levain) is:

Bread flour - 100%

Water - 60%

Olive oil -  5%

Salt -  1.5%

Yeast -  1% (or half that amount if you plan to retard the bread overnight)

Parmesan cheese -  20%

Half the cheese is cubed and half grated, then added to the dough after it has been mixed to moderate gluten development.

I was unable to retard the dough overnight because of lack of refrigerator space.  

The bread was wonderful lightly toasted and served with a breakfast egg.  It would be a terrific accompaniment with spaghetti, as well as broiled with a bit of garlic, olive oil, sliced tomatoes, and maybe a dash of fresh mozzarella.  

Am betting it will also make excellent croutons and bread crumbs.

This is a great recipe for a special occasion and the quality of the cheese you use will have a major effect on the result.  

Only one caveat:  it will make one very lousy PB&J!

Edouard's picture
Edouard

New WFO Photos

http://www.flickr.com/photos/technopeasant/?saved=1

New photos of bread from my learning curve with the wood fired oven built last summer. Sorry. Again got the photos in reverse order. Think I know now how that's happening and won't do it again. But the bread was wonderful - that, I know how to do! :-)

And yes, a wood fired oven is a learning curve. Somewhat tougher than I thought it would be. I knew it would be as simple as setting a dial on an oven and arranging baking bricks on an oven rack, but still, this has proved to be a bit trickier than I imagined. But still quite glad I did it. 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hamelman's 5-Grain Sourdough Rye

Hamelman's 5-grain Levain and Seeded sourdough from "Bread" have been among my favorites for some time, but his 5-grain Sourdough Rye somehow had escaped my attention, in spite of several posts by others, until LindyD recently made it. At first, I was not clear that this was a different bread from the 5-grain Levain, but I eventually caught on. When I looked at the formula, I knew I would love it, and I do.

Thanks, Lindy! This is a wonderful bread.

David

Anonymous baker's picture
Anonymous baker (not verified)

Grains to use/recipes for Low Glycemic/glycemic load breads

I've recently found (for various health reasons) I need to switch to a low glycemic diet.

Breads 'are' on it, however, they now must be wholegrain, with as little finely ground flours as possible...argh!

Anyone have any recipes they'd care to share, or opinions on this?

Thanks--I really don't want to give up all my breads.

bassopotamus's picture
bassopotamus

DLX Learning Curve- HELP

I'm having tons of trouble with my new DLX and am looking for some help. Problems

1. Does not seeem to agitate top to bottom very well.

2. Does not seem to produce a smooth dough regardless of how much mixing

3. Inadequate gluten development. Everything seems soupy, regardless of how much I mix. things are sticking in bannetons, spreading more than rising, etc. I put an extra 20% flour in my baguettes and they still seem wet.

 

What I have been doing

1. Using known good recipes that used to work.

2. Weighing all ingredients

3. Trying various mixer techniques including mix by hand first, 20 minute autolyze, dough hook, roller.

4. Varied sizes of batches

 

This is driving me nuts. I like the capacity of the mixer, but so far, nothing else. My kitchen aid was producing much better results, but for the fact that it has, in practice, about 1/5 the capacity.

Bob B's picture
Bob B

Wanting More sour in my bread

Hi Out there I hope that all is well with everyone. I have a question. I have been makeing a SF sour dough I think it is out of the bread bible. I want to get more of a sour tast. will adding more starter to it help? It calls for one cup of starter now. for one loaf but it is not as sour as I would like. any Ideas?? Thanks for the help.

Have a great day

Bob

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